Dylan Bowman (00:00:15): Hey fam well to the free trail podcast, of course I am your host Dylan in Bowman, always appreciative of your time. Grateful to have you here today. We are joined by Emily Hagood, the pride of the farmlands of rurals Zimbabwe, and this year's fifth place finisher at the Western states. 100. Emily is truly one of the rising stars in the sport today. Super strong, super consistent. And at only 27 years old, still in the earliest days of her career, I have to say, I loved this conversation. Emily is just a joy to speak with. We talked all about her very unique background growing up in Zimbabwe and how that's shaped the person and athlete. She is today. We talked about her education, her growth and development in a sport. Of course, we talked about her race at Western states where she ran in the lead with Ruth Croft for much of the day.

Dylan Bowman (00:01:10): And then we finished by talking about the future. What is ahead for Emily? There is so much to learn from her. I hope you all really enjoy this conversation as usual, a big thank you to speed land for being the presenting sponsor of the free trail podcast. If you haven't tried these shoes yet, where have you been? We're coming up on the one year anniversary since the brand's launched time flies. We are so excited with how things are going now and are immensely excited about the removable car techs plates, double bow, a lacing system for the best fit of all time. DMA integration in the upper for insane durability. These are seriously just the highest quality products on the market. Go check out the so HSV at run speed, land.com pick up a pair today. We'll be making more announcements in the near future about the next model. You've probably seen me post about on Instagram a bunch of times. So watch this space, but a big thank you to speed land free trail. We'll also be making some big announcements. Soon. We are working on some exciting things behind the scenes, some changes and some expansion on the horizon. So stay tuned for that for now. I hope you enjoy the episode with the great Emily OOD. See you in the outro.

Dylan Bowman (00:02:41): Welcome to the show. How are you?

Emily Hawgood (00:02:43): Hey, I'm super good. Thanks for having me

Dylan Bowman (00:02:46): Super great to have you here. And, uh, I've been looking forward to this one for a long time and, you know, I've sort of become a, uh, a recent rabid fan of, of Emily OOD. And I'm really excited to sort of use this as an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you and hopefully share your story with a, uh, a wider audience. But first maybe just tell us how the immediate aftermath after a fantastic place at Western states has been, how are you feeling physically and psychologically?

Emily Hawgood (00:03:17): Yeah, so, um, right from before the finish, I was excited to get back there next year. I

Dylan Bowman (00:03:24): Was gonna ask you that later.

Emily Hawgood (00:03:27): So that's kinda a good start, um, on the whole old fronts. Um, but yeah, mainly physically everything pretty good. I've got a tight hip fixer and that's about it. So that's a fun way to come out of a solid race. Um, yeah, and I mean, we'll probably chat about later, but it was a special race all around and definitely get to share pots of it with Ruth and the race of the Eddie dust team and my coach and everything. We just made it pretty remarkable. So I couldn't be more filled up yeah. From my skin.

Dylan Bowman (00:04:04): You were absolutely. I think one of the stories of the day, at least for myself looking back at it and it was such an impressive performance. I'm curious. And of course we will go into more detail about the race itself, but maybe while we're just talking about the immediate aftermath, how do you approach the couple weeks immediately after a hundred mile race, now that you've done a few of them in your career, how's the acute recovery been and what are you doing to help yourself come back to normal?

Emily Hawgood (00:04:34): Yeah, so definitely over the time I've seen how much better my body handles them. Like after your first one, I feel like you just feel like you've been hit by a bus, but then with some extra time and experience. Um, I was jumping around the next day and feeling pretty good so that's always, always exciting. Um, just knowing that the work you've put in is paying off on that front too. Um, but yeah, the first two weeks for me are pretty light. Like if I need to do nothing, that's totally okay. Um, which I learned a lot last year from doing the golden ticket races and then the 200 milers off to that. Um, just like if you get injured or anything like that, having that firm two week risk period is pretty, pretty sweet. yeah,

Dylan Bowman (00:05:27): No, I'm pretty strict about that. Myself. I'm very good at being lazy. So I'm glad to hear you share that skillset anyway, we'll talk more about Western states, uh, later on in the conversation, but as is my predisposition, I really like to learn a little bit more about the athletes and you and I have known each other loosely only for a short period of time. And the little that I do know about you makes me fascinated to peel back the curtain a little bit more. Of course, people who know who you are probably know, you know, that you're from Zimbabwe. I'm sure you've talked about this on a number of different podcasts, but I'd love to, if you'll entertain me, talk a little bit more about that here, because quite honestly, I, I just would like to learn the story myself. So maybe let's just like talk in generalities about your upbringing. Of course, being from Zimbabwe is something that makes you unique and different within the sport. And there's not a lot of people that you can sort of identify across pop culture across sporting culture of that are from Zimbabwe. So you sort of carry a, a country on your back. And of course, whenever you finish races, you're always proudly carrying the beautiful Zimbabwe flag. So maybe just, uh, tell the listeners a little bit about your childhood and Zimbabwe and in what ways it shapes the person you are today.

Emily Hawgood (00:06:49): Yeah. I mean, I think in a lot of ways it's a unique place to be born and grow up. Um, just so different. Like when everyone, when anyone asks me like, oh, what's it like back there? I always like struggled to kind of talk about it, just cuz it's so different to anywhere else I've traveled in the world. Um, just in terms of everything, like kind of the landscape, the politics, the bringing upbringing, economy kind of everything. Um, even just the people, um, just in how maybe we've had to kind of grow up and live over there, but then also just the opportunities we have had or haven't had, um, or the things we've learned have just been yeah, pretty mind blowing. And I think daily I'm kind of maybe shocked, not shocked, but just surprised at like how my upbringing is just so different from other people, um, around the world too. And just like some things I think I take for granted and then some things that other people take for granted, I realize across different cultures, how much those things are, um, highlighted and you know, just like, I dunno yeah. It's yeah. It's kind of unique,

Dylan Bowman (00:08:14): But your family was from what I've read in that I run far article, they wrote about you, which is great that you come from a farming family. So maybe tell us a little bit about like your parents and what kind of farming you were doing and, and what life was like growing up in that environment.

Emily Hawgood (00:08:31): Yeah. So I think that was like the best upbringing I could have dreamed of. We grew up on a farm. Um, so we were outside of any cities or anything. We had a small community of farmers, um, grew up not wearing shoes, like barefoot, everywhere. um, my mom would just put us in our nappies and they'd us play like out in the puddles and all of that. Um, it kind of becomes like a very, just like safe environment, which was super fun to grow up on. You had a lot of space, we had the whole farm to go explore with the dogs and ride out bikes and um, just be outside a lot and having my brother, it was super nice cause we just got to kind of in entertain each other and look off for each other. Um, so that was cool. Is your brother

Dylan Bowman (00:09:21): Or younger?

Emily Hawgood (00:09:22): 15 months younger than me.

Dylan Bowman (00:09:24): Okay. That's funny. My, my brother and I are only separated by 14 months too. So awesome.

Emily Hawgood (00:09:30): Is,

Dylan Bowman (00:09:30): Is he still in Zimbabwe and, and what's your relationship like with him?

Emily Hawgood (00:09:35): Yeah, so he actually, uh, now he's based back there and he just took over the farm in February. Yeah. So he's bombing and yeah. wow. It's cool to see him over there and it's kind of nice to, you know, have the farm still and be able to kind of connect that way.

Dylan Bowman (00:09:55): Yeah. Yeah. So farming is usually a family business, like, you know, right. It's the case. It seems with your family, but it's also a really hard business, right. Requires kind of relentless year round work. And you're also dependent on things that are outside your control sometimes. Right. In terms of rainfall and sunshine, water availability. What's that like? I mean, are there any memorable moments of joy or adversity from your time growing up on the farm?

Emily Hawgood (00:10:29): Yeah. Uh, I mean, so we are dairy farm is too. So that kind of adds a, another aspect to that kind of commitment of having to be there, you know, running the farm 365 days a year. Um, my dad has built a really good team, which allows him to, you know, throughout growing up be at all sporting events or at school events or escape for holidays. Um, he's like rebuilding that a little bit right now with my brother. They're just creating a team so that they can have a little more freedom cuz like my mom could come over Western, but my brother was traveling so my dad couldn't come um, but yeah, I think it's so funny. We always make fun of FAAS because if it's raining, they want sunshine. If it's sunny, they,

Emily Hawgood (00:11:18): Um, but I think that helped me in endurance school just knowing like if it was raining well you just had to deal with it. Like yeah, I know there's no escape from it and if it's sunny, you just gotta figure out how to deal with the heat. Um, but yeah, a lot of things growing up, I mean I think those Zimbabwe situation in itself, like create, created this environment where me and my brother had to grow up and we as a family, like really had to treasure the positives we found every day. Cuz I mean in Z, especially when we were growing up, you didn't know if tomorrow was gonna look like today, like if you were gonna even have, um, the opportunity to be on the farm tomorrow. Mm. Um, yeah. And for listeners like reading about the economy or situation and Z kind of will give you a little more insight into that. But I think that really made me like grateful for opportunities, grateful for people. I had a lot of my friends leave, um, like my first two years of school, especially like I'd make friends and then they'd have to leave the country or, you know, go find somewhere else to live. And that was for kind of a struggle

Dylan Bowman (00:12:27): Political or economic reasons you mean?

Emily Hawgood (00:12:29): Yeah, kind of both mm-hmm just like family situations too. Like they felt more comfortable. It's just like over here, like you work a day and you can go to the bank tomorrow and kind of get your pay check yeah. And pull it out. Whereas in Zimbabwe it's like you could see the money in two months or three months, and it's not like that fluid of a situation. So a lot of people can struggle with that. Um, and even right now, like my mom keeps telling me stuff like Zimbabwe wants to create like a interest of like 200 and full percent or something. And I was like it, I mean, it just doesn't even make sense when I talk about it, but , that's kind of the environment we grew up. Yeah. And so you just don't know. Yeah. So if the people have, if people have the opportunity to leave a lot of times, especially with younger kids and stuff, they do leave, but right now we have a lot of people coming back, especially young families. So that's kind of nice. Um, but yeah, just, I think it created like a gratefulness that me and my brother hold for other people and like that investment in the communities that hold you at whatever stage you are in life is really special.

Dylan Bowman (00:13:39): Yeah. And I imagine, again, farming being usually a family oriented business, it probably creates a really tight bond with the family. And you just mentioned that your mother was a Western states, which was so cool to see, I'd love to hear how you managed to maintain the connection with the family being so far away from your roots. What's it like for you? I know you've lived in the us now for like close to 10 years at this point, but have, has there ever been a struggle to sort of maintain that feeling of connection being so far away?

Emily Hawgood (00:14:15): Um, definitely COVID um, cuz like I've kind of always had like a plan for like the next time. So like my mom leaves tomorrow, but I'm seeing her and my dad over at UT M B. So I'm like, okay. I, I can like as much as it's hard to say goodbye now. I, I know I have like that plan to see them later, but with COVID that was kind of taken away. Like I was supposed to be going home for Christmas and then suddenly I couldn't go home and that was really hard on my family. Um, like my dad and uh, even me, you know, just like we didn't know when we'd be able to see each other and as much as like calms have got so much better over the years, like being able to call or FaceTime or things like that, that really helps. But that physical interaction and being next to each other, I think is really, um, hard to maintain over the long distance. So I feel very lucky to be able to see my parents at least once a year. yeah.

Dylan Bowman (00:15:14): So I also read that you went to a boarding school that was a little bit removed from your hometown and that this distance and being on your own more or less, you know, sort of dependent on yourself a little bit more than the average school-aged kid, certainly more so than I was maybe contributed to an independent streak in you. I'd love to hear you sort of reflect on that a little bit. Just sort of like how going away to school at a young age and, and again, like living in a rural part of a developing country, how all those different ingredients maybe contributed to the person you are today?

Emily Hawgood (00:15:56): Yeah. I mean, I think that was a lot of my grounding roots. Um, like you had to grow up pretty quick, just going away from, you know, your family. Um, it was, I mean, you were, you, you were held to a set of rules from an early age and so that made it just different cuz you didn't have your parents to, um, be around, but also it made, I think it made me closer to my parents kind of being removed for the week and then we would go home and my parents were really good about setting aside time for us where the weekends were all about family time mm-hmm so we got to, you know, do the fun stuff around the farm and travel and do things like that. Whereas maybe if we'd had more daily interaction, we wouldn't be as close as we are. Um, just cuz we kind of expected the time where it was like, no on the weekends it was like, okay, we haven't got two days. everything we can. Um, and then it allowed my parents to like do all the, if I could say it boring work during the week and then get to play with us on the weekend. Um, and as much as we had to be on the farm, we could kind of spend more time together, which is really cool. Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (00:17:09): Is there anything about that period of time that you look back on and you can directly associate with maybe part of your personality today? Like do you view yourself as a uniquely kind of independent person or like is there's something else that you can identify from that just unusual upbringing that maybe is a beneficial part of your personality today?

Emily Hawgood (00:17:35): Yeah, definitely very independent um, I'll make things work. Like if I, whenever I need to and um, being out like being kind of confident, just talking to anyone, I think helps a lot with that, like independence and just being able to make friends anywhere or any situation. Oh, that yeah. Was a huge part of it. Um, just meeting, you know, friends at school or having to, you know, make connections that was a big, is probably a big part of who I am and has made it so much more enriching, like traveling and seeing the world and things like that. Just having connections all over um,

Dylan Bowman (00:18:18): I was gonna say though, because like, I don't know, again, just not being that familiar with your story until recently mm-hmm it seems to me like you don't get rattled often, you know like you, like you said, you're just like you can get through things. Right. And right. Maybe, maybe this independence that was developed at a young age has made you a better athlete too. Have you ever reflected on that?

Emily Hawgood (00:18:43): Yeah, for sure. I think like growing up, we always had the saying of like, we'll make a plan. Zimbabwe will always make a plan and that has been a big part of it. So like, yes, that first immediate two seconds after you can be pissed about something yeah. But then what can you do to make it better? You know, what can you do to kind of find a solution? And I do, I reflect on that so much and I think in the endurance world that helps a lot cuz it's like, okay, your stomach's messed up. What can you do to change it over? Like, oh my stomach's messed up. Just like sitting on it. Yeah. Um, if there are things you can do, I think that's been built into me of like, okay, well what can you do? You stubbed your foot. Okay. Can you do something about it or do you have it? There's no point in sitting around cuz no one's gonna help you. If that makes sense.

Dylan Bowman (00:19:37): And you've also had like a lot of consistency in your athletic career and you've been sort of like steadily improving, but it seems like you rarely implode, you know, like you rarely give up on yourself and it seems like maybe that was something that was born from this period of your life as well. So maybe, uh, maybe talk about that, but generally I'd love to hear a little bit more about like your history with sport, you know, growing up on a farm in Zimbabwe, I know you went to boarding school where you probably had the opportunity to be competitive with other kids. What was the relationship with sport? Like when you were a kid?

Emily Hawgood (00:20:13): Yeah. So I think from going to school an early age, we played every sport in the book cuz you know, everything's laid out in boarding school, you go to class in the morning, you have lunch at 12 o'clock at one o'clock afternoon sessions start and everyone plays all the sports. Like even if you aren't an athletic kid, you are out swimming at swim time. Like that's what we did. We had, you know, obviously team sports and then the non team group, but everyone's swimming for an hour. So that was kind of nice. Cause it gave me a broad, you know, uh, opportunity to try everything we swam. We ran, we played tennis, played hockey, played netball um, throughout the year. And so that gave me a broad spectrum of sports to try. Um, and I really am glad I did it that way. Cause I found a lot of people now say like, oh I wish I'd tried playing a team sport growing up. Um, and I know now like doing what I do run, you know, trail running, like I've tried everything else. I love what I do now.

Dylan Bowman (00:21:17): Me too. I tried everything else. This is the best one. Come on.

Emily Hawgood (00:21:21): Yeah. Um, so that's yeah, it's the, that's just a nice way to do it. And I encourage a lot of people. I know, you know, younger or older to try and like, because a lot of people say, well, if you specialize at the age of nine years old, you're gonna do bitter. And it's like, yeah, but you might lose a passion for it, which I've gained so much now. Yeah. Um, that, yeah, I wouldn't wanna trade my sport for anything. I I've tried all the other ones

Dylan Bowman (00:21:51): This is so true. I mean the youth participation in sports in the United States is actually going down and then the kids who do practice sport are specializing more. And it's like, man, when I was a kid, it was just like, you left the house in the morning, you played like 11 different sports and you came home and you did the same thing the next day. And then ultimately later in high school or whatever, maybe you narrow it down to one or two specific focuses. But man, I, I totally agree. It's, it's really important to develop that just general exposure to different activities. And then you learn how to compete. You learn how to work as a team, you learn how to win and lose. It's just so darn important. So I mean ultimately you make it to the college of Idaho, which to me is kind of just like a weird place for you. and uh, like this is strange to just like go from where you were, uh, to outside of Boise, Idaho. So tell us how that materialized.

Emily Hawgood (00:22:54): Yeah. So my grandparents were actually both sick at the time I was applying for college and my mom was living six, well for like six weeks in France and then at home and I was kind of helping my dad around the farm with the bookkeeping and stuff like that. So I never like went to any of the official like university searches, um, communities or anything or got connected that way. So I did all my own research and it was applying by myself like online. And so um, when I like put all my stuff on college board, which is one of an online like search engine thing where you get to like pick what you want, what type of school, what specifics were you looking for? Um, like a list of, I don't know, 50 universities and colleges came up for what I put in mm-hmm and the university of Idaho came in and I, I think I'd heard about Idaho, just like, I dunno on a movie somewhere or something and my dad was a potato farmer and a dairy farmer. Oh. And so

Dylan Bowman (00:23:59): Now it makes sense. Yeah. Idaho was world famous for its potatoes.

Emily Hawgood (00:24:03): Right. and so, and then I remember like I, I saw Idaho and it kind of caught my eye as one of the colleges, um, that jumped out at me and I like Googled it. And the first thing that comes up with Idaho is like pictures of the Sawers and just like the mountain ranges and then obviously like the farming community. And I just, I don't know. I was just like, oh that I think there yeah. Feel

Dylan Bowman (00:24:30): At home. You feel at home in a place that is so far removed from home.

Emily Hawgood (00:24:35): Yeah. Yeah. And it was actually, I was looking at going to the university of Idaho and I miss, I screwed up my application. So I ended up at the college of Idaho instead of the university, same thing.

Dylan Bowman (00:24:49): Come on. Same

Emily Hawgood (00:24:50): Thing. Yeah. Same thing. Exactly. I get here and everyone's like, oh, there's a thousand things you could have confused yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was funny cuz the first day I remember driving down to the college and you drive down like the main street to the entrance and there's just like thumb equipment everywhere, like stores and whatever. And I was like, like you said, I just felt at home from the beginning. Yeah. So I knew it had been the right place. Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (00:25:14): That's so interesting. And then I learned from you in our pre-race interview show ahead of Western states that you met Dr. Matthew lay there, Matt Le an old friend of mine and a guy who I used to do a ton of training with when we both lived in Marin county, he ultimately left Marin to take a job at the college of Idaho mm-hmm and it sounds like he was a massive influence on getting you from being this sporty, uh, person to yeah. Sort of finding trail and ultra running. So please tell us that story. I'd love to hear how your guys' relationship began and, and maybe how it's evolved today.

Emily Hawgood (00:25:50): Yeah. So, uh, Matt is amazing. I mean, you know him, so that's great. And I'm, it's so exciting that you got to train with him when he was, you know, doing all this crazy stuff yeah. Um, but yeah, so he, I took a winter class with him the first semester he moved to the college of Idaho. I think it was the first semester or it was his second and it was, it's just a, I think it's a full week semester, but we meet like three times a week for like two or three hours. And I remember every time I would just like get to the end of the class and I couldn't wait for the next one. It was a, I think it was like an in, I can't remember even it was like a performance oh, ultra endurance, like food nutrition class. And he was just so passionate about it. And he had tried everything too. Like he'd tried the keto stuff and like all this stuff. So it was like little bits of everything that just got my heart, like so excited. I just wanted to know more and I'd already changed my major like three times from,

Dylan Bowman (00:26:53): So wait, pause there, cuz I actually meant to ask you this so like, okay. No, cause now you you're, you've gotten a master's degree, et cetera. Or maybe some other credentials. I'm not entirely sure. But yeah. I was wondering if you had gone to the college of Idaho to specifically study exercise fizz or whatever. So tell us about what you were studying and, and maybe yeah. How it changed.

Emily Hawgood (00:27:15): Yeah. So I mean, I was trying to go to the university of Idaho and they have a big agricultural section. Okay. Um, as much as my dad, as a young kid had told me, like, you have to get another degree, don't just be a Fama first I was like, nah, I'm gonna do agriculture . And so I went to U of I, well I was trying to go to U of I with the idea of studying agriculture. And then when I got accepted at the college of Idaho, um, I mean, it was unique in that as a small university or college. And there were only 1200 students when I got there, but I had asked my, um, admissions counselor, like, is there any way, you know, I, the college ride doesn't really have agriculture at all. And he was like, yeah, but there's like this environmental study section, like I'm sure you'll be fine.

Emily Hawgood (00:28:02): definitely got there and was like, yeah, no . So I was on that track for like a semester and then went on to, I thought I would, uh, do, uh, some like psychology major profession. Cause I wanted to work with autistic kids. Mm-hmm that was kind of a passion I had. And so I switched to psychology and then I didn't like that wow. So then I was like, oh, maybe I'll do pre-med cuz that'll just open up opportunities. And the nice thing with the college is they liberal arts college. So everything ties into everything else. So I didn't have to like take extra classes for an extra year or anything. Um, they all, uh, counted towards my exercise, this major, which ended up being the one I stuck with. So eventually

Dylan Bowman (00:28:54): You fall into Matt's class, which is a nutrition exercise science class. So pick up the story from there.

Emily Hawgood (00:29:02): Yeah. And then, so then he's, I mean he's sharing like everything, like I just remember some of the stories and I'm like what the craziness , you know, he's tried this type diet and run for 12 hours and like won this race. And I was just like just fascinated. Everything was just fascinating. And then it's so nice too. Like the stuff you were living in class, I mean it pretty much woken into the cafeteria for lunch and I'm, you know, figuring out formulas trying to calculate, you know, what will this be? What energy is this providing me type of thing. Um, I was running at that point in college. So, uh, just got to test it out on the running side too. Yeah. And I loved that idea of like what I was earning in class. I got to put into practice, um, on the sports field and yeah. So just from that feeling of like getting to the end of each of his class classes being excited for the next one, I was like, I gotta do this. Like yeah. There's no question about it. I love this stuff.

Dylan Bowman (00:30:02): how how's your guys' relationship evolved since then, because I'm sure he carries like an immense amount of pride seeing where you've come now as an athlete.

Emily Hawgood (00:30:13): Yeah. I think it's, it's been pretty, a pretty special, um, relationship with him. Like I just have had the huge disrespect for him from the beginning and then having him kind of be involved in the ultra world now and like his coaching and I just lucked out last year. I mean he coaching Tyler, he was at the finish line for Tyler and then like I round the corner hours later and he was still staying there for me. Like yeah. It was just so special to see that. And I think like that's where my most reflection has been is just like he changed my career path. Yeah. And then ultimately got me into this, um, without even kind of realizing it. Yeah. Which was super, totally

Dylan Bowman (00:31:02): Unintentionally. He, he wasn't even meaning to indoctrinate. And the funny thing is for our listeners, you know, poor Matt lay, he was kind of on the path to be a great professional runner and he barely, I don't even think he runs anymore. He's been injured for years at this point. And mm-hmm, , he's taken that passion and basically funneled it into working with athletes as a, as a coach. You mentioned that he coaches Tyler Green, who now has been second in fourth place at Western states. He coaches patio leery. He coaches for Charmon ultras group. So anyway, just in case our listeners aren't familiar with, with Matt Le he's always, um, you know, a great thinker in the sport and often Mike puts out fun interviews and writing and stuff. In fact, I should have him on the show. So

Emily Hawgood (00:31:50): Fun. Yeah, you should. And his research is so fascinating. Like the stuff he did in grad school was with rats.

Dylan Bowman (00:31:56): yeah. He studied when we lived in Marin, he studied aging in like fruit flies or something like that. It was people in guys that are just like it just so smart. I don't get it anyway.

Emily Hawgood (00:32:12): Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (00:32:15): Sort of fell into the right field. Obviously you've gone on to get was a master's degree in, it was like high altitude exercise visit. Yeah. So like you're obviously like a scientific oriented thinker, probably an analytical person. Do you find like, has that always been part of your personality that maybe you discovered later in life and do you identify as such and does it impact your training if you know what I mean? Do you like take that kind of approach where you think methodically with a scientific method in a, for lack of a better word?

Emily Hawgood (00:32:51): I think I, I, I love that you asked that question because my sixth grade teacher always told me like, don't worry, am your math's terrible, but your English will always carry you through and then I ended up doing like all the sciencey stuff yeah. Yeah. But I've always been like stoked that I've had the balance. Like I can think in the terms of science, but I haven't ever held myself in this box of like, wait, but this doesn't make sense mathematically. Like I've always kind of had that, um, ability to just like follow like how my body's feeling let's say. And like what a situation makes me feel like. So I never feel like I have to do it by the numbers. Um, so yeah, no, I don't like put myself in that sign C box and that has actually helped me, I think cuz a lot of stuff I find, even in my research, like doesn't make sense when you put it to the numbers.

Emily Hawgood (00:33:49): Um, whereas like even with coaching and different athletes, like everyone is so different. Mm-hmm and that's what kind of drives my training is like, yeah, you can take exactly what I do for the next 10 weeks and give it to someone else and they won't be able to do that or give me someone else's training plan and I'll have, you know, I'll be injured or something like that. And so that is, yeah, I think that's what guides things for me is that I don't have to like do that comparison either. Cause I'm like, I'm just different

Dylan Bowman (00:34:21): So, but do you sometimes struggle with that kind of science mindset though? I, I think this is kind of fascinating because like I totally am not an analytical or number oriented person and it's just bringing into my head. You know, I had Dakota Jones on the podcast not long ago and he's studying engineering at Montana state right now, hoping to mm-hmm apply that towards environmental work, but he was like an English major. The first time he went to university and everybody who has followed Dakota knows he's a fantastic writer. And so we talked at length about the fact that he was sort of out of his comfort zone, studying something that didn't come as naturally to him, the engineering rather than the English, you know, to sort of polar opposite fields of study. Do you identify with that at all?

Emily Hawgood (00:35:10): No. I think from when my professor told me that I just didn't have to worry that I never used math before. I think I just got this stubborn mindset of like, no I get a figure you're wrong. So yeah. So now I haven't ever struggled with that. Definitely have founded a strength. Um, just like knowing what the science says, knowing exactly what you need, but then saying like, you know, yes, I, you know, in sensical mathematical ways, I shouldn't be able to run for 10 miles without a gel or something like that. But ah, I've done, you know, for circumstances, you know, you run out of jails with something on a run, I've been able to run a lost 10 miles without a gel and felt fine mm-hmm so that's kind of helped me in training or in racing where my stomach turns or something and I can have 10 miles where I can't take anything in it's. Okay. Like I know I can do it. Um, even though kind of the science is like, that's the worst thing you can do.

Dylan Bowman (00:36:08): yeah. That's, that's interesting cuz like oftentimes the science is inflexible, right? And it's the marriage of the art and science where you have the, the education and the knowledge, but then you have you give yourself the, the grace and flexibility to yep. you know, to, to cut some corn, not cut corners, but you know what I mean? It's kinda like to be a little bit easier on yourself. So, so, alright. So let's start talking about your running career because we haven't even gotten there yet. I know like one of the things that I think is interesting is like looking at you and Cody Lynn and Britney Peterson, all of whom have had long term relation coaching relationships with Paul Lynn and all three of you guys sort of got your start in sky running more or less. And now our all excelling at sort of the longer course stuff. And so maybe talk about just yeah, like getting connected with Paul and, and then more specifically like reflecting now on where you are in your career, how the sky running start and how cutting your teeth in that type of environment has maybe contributed to the success that you've seen in longer course stuff.

Emily Hawgood (00:37:15): Yeah. Um, so like I was asked before we, or, and at the interview with you and Karen, um, I mean I wouldn't be the athlete. I am stay without Paul. I like fully contribute all of it to him. Um, I think he's a very great people person, as much as he, you know, is an engineer and he knows the numbers and he knows what we should do and things like that. He, he also knows how to like connect to the heart and really make it magical out there. And not just it's art,

Dylan Bowman (00:37:46): Art and science right there it is.

Emily Hawgood (00:37:48): yep. That balance has been so key um, yeah, so it's yeah, that, I mean, I, I dunno what else to say, like he is, I couldn't be more grateful that I stumbled upon meeting him and that it's just grown into this like lifelong friendship as well as like learning from him daily. Um, and starting off with the sky running. Um, I think it was mostly just opportunity to travel. Like he, he gave me the opportunity, like, Hey, like Brittany and Cody are racing over in Europe. Like you wanna come like, can you buy a ticket and like sweet. Yeah, let's go explore. And I, I love like being a teammate. And so having that opportunity to go and race with my teammates over there, I was like, oh yeah, I'm in, like, no doubt about it. Let me ask, let me ask my job if I can take some time off.

Emily Hawgood (00:38:50): And uh, yeah. So that just having that opportunity to go over there and then meeting, you know, more of the trail running community and starting to kind of find my family all over the world made it, uh, really unique and a great upbringing. I, I actually started off with a 65 K in Cape town. And so knew that the ultra distances were more my strength mm-hmm um, but starting off with Paul, like he's very good about not letting you burn yourself out when you start out. Like he is like Emily you're young, you know, like having Cody too, like watching Cody's career. And he is very, if you guys

Dylan Bowman (00:39:32): Are about the same age too, aren't you and Cody. Yeah,

Emily Hawgood (00:39:35): Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he started running along a lot longer before me. And so even just learning from him, like seeing how he's excelled, um, but also how he's been patient and not jumped to the ultra stuff too quick. I think that was a huge part for me. And I got to work on like my strengths and my weaknesses and sky running and just kind of get to learn the competitive world a little more, learn more of the, um, trail running community. And that was a great introduction to it before I jumped to the distance stuff. And probably like the more comfortable stuff for me is the distance stuff. But knowing that, okay, well, if something isn't working right, or you struggle with something here, like on the technical part or, you know, downhill running for me when I first started was terrible. Like, all I wanted to do was go uphill. Like just gimme all the sky running stuff that goes up hill . Yeah. But then now I'm like, oh, I wanna go down I'll climb so I can go down yeah. Um, and so that was a great way to get into the trail running world. Um, starting off with those short stuff as much for my age as my passion to keep doing this stuff until I'm 90 . Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (00:40:49): Yeah. I was kind of trying to think about it myself and for those who are lesser familiar, I mean, sky running usually entails shorter distance courses, but that are steeper and more technical mm-hmm . And thinking about you and Cody and Britney and where you are now, all three, just crushing it, the longer stuff. I'm just like thinking, man, what a great way to develop of like having learning the, the competitive side of the sports kind of yeah. Getting more familiar with that dynamic, but then being on terrain that is so like psychologically challenging too. Mm-hmm like both the climbing is just like full gas, steep, uphill climbing, which everybody knows who will listen to this podcast is like a, a spiritually challenging thing. yeah.

Emily Hawgood (00:41:37): Then

Dylan Bowman (00:41:37): Like it's a sort of sky running type descent are also, you have to be totally mentally engaged, right. And then you, and you have that competitive, uh, aspect always playing in the back of your head. And so I can just see it as being such a great opportunity to allow yourself to develop as an athlete. So fast forwarding and talking about last year, you and I, again, in our pre-race interview show, I asked you like, if you viewed 20, 21 as kind of like your breakout season, because for me mm-hmm, , it, it seemed to be that way where you clearly, it took a step up in terms of your competitive results. So maybe for those who didn't listen to the pre-race interview, maybe, uh, reflect on that. And, and what made 2021 special for you?

Emily Hawgood (00:42:25): I mean, 2020 was my first hundred mile. I did the I'm tough 100. So obviously got the green light from pole to jump to those longer distances where I kind of felt like I would Excel a little more um, that was exciting, but it obviously opens up another world of trail running of like finding your strengths and weaknesses in that sense. And how do you deal with stuff 25 hours into a race um, so then I did the three, uh, golden ticket races to try and get an entry into Western and states. And that I think the, the plan was always that I had those backups yeah. Of number two, number three, but ideally for myself and full pull, um, that wasn't gonna be the like preferred route of entrance was to have to run all three and we paid very close attention to how my body responded, how my head was like, was I still excited by, uh, go round number three, as I was about go around number one.

Emily Hawgood (00:43:35): And I was, and that definitely has played into my career now. Um, just like learning to listen to my body. Mm-hmm um, over, you know, hearing from the experts like you can't run 200 miles in eight weeks, you know, that's just not heard of, um, I knew, I know, and I knew then like, and I learned like you have to take time. So those two weeks of recovery for me are so key, which I probably didn't do very well after Bandera last year, but then after black canyon I had to cause I fell and I injured myself. Mm-hmm and so then I just like have adopted that of like, that's something I'll carry on forever. yeah. Like that's a very key necessity for me and my body, um, to be able to keep doing this stuff. Um, so just in that sense and then doing Western and doing U T M B two extremely different races, um, in the short time period gave me just another kind of stepping stone to maybe even believing in myself a little more believing in the process and just being able to kind give it my all.

Emily Hawgood (00:44:52): Yeah. Um, yeah. And then I, we talked about 20, 21 also joining the, a dust Turx team and that opened a thousand doors for me and just connected me to an incredible family of people yeah. That, yeah, that really probably made 20, 21 a standout year in more ways than my results did. Um,

Dylan Bowman (00:45:15): Wow. Yeah. Well, this is interesting. So I guess let's riff on this for a little bit because I mean, it it's worth mentioning you finished seventh at Western states and 10th at UT M B last year. So two top 10 finishes. I'm sure. Looking back, you feel like you could improve on both of those results, but you were the only person who ran the double who did so re respectfully re and like there was a handful, if not more people who completely exploded and didn't finish U T M B at all. And I think it goes back to what we identified earlier. You're just like somebody who doesn't get rattled easily and who knows how to kind of get through things. But I I'm sure, like you've probably been asked this before, but I'm curious, like to what you attribute that to, like, because if you look on paper, the other athletes who struggled, it was like Beth Pascal and Jim Walmsley and Tim Britney Peterson, and, you know, the name brand athletes in the sport, weren't able to put the devil together, but young Emily hoed farmer from Zimbabwe

Emily Hawgood (00:46:23): Did

Dylan Bowman (00:46:24): And did super well. What, uh, what, what do you look back at? I mean, again, I, I recognize that you probably feel like you could do a lot better at both races, but maybe what, what do you attribute to the fact that you were able to have those two solid performances back to back when many of the best in the world weren't able to put it together?

Emily Hawgood (00:46:43): Um, so I think like the first thing was is that I actually don't think I could have done better in those two races last year. Like with the knowledge base I had and everything I put out on the line, like I gave it my best shot mm-hmm and I'm like really proud of that. Um, but also like realized that where I was at that time, like those were my best performances for the year, for the time. And that's a pretty cool place to be, but also maybe not putting more pressure on myself, like getting to the end of each race and saying like, oh, I could have done it better being excited about what I was achieving right then. And there, I think carries a lot of weight moving forward. Mm-hmm um, which is the same for a Western this year. Like yes.

Emily Hawgood (00:47:30): You know, if things hadn't gone, if my stomach hadn't turned, maybe I would've done better or, you know, maybe I can, but it's also like being proud of, you know, that fifth place spot this year. Yeah. And yeah, I really, I really do think it is the stubborn side of like, just knowing you can keep going. Um, but also having that calculated, scientific mind of like, I'm not injured, I'm still running one foot in front of the other, no change in GA or getting an injury. Um, so that allows you to just keep pushing through these ultras. Yeah. And like being elite and having, you know, maybe a better chance of getting ahead of cutoffs, you have a lot more time, so yes. Maybe you won't finish when you want to in terms of timeframe or place, but knowing you can keep going and still meet the required time commitments. Um, for me is a huge thing. Um, just like trusting I can get to the finish line, like yes. Okay. If it's not on the top 10, which at sky running events, it was hardly even the top 10 . Yeah. So that's OK. yeah. Um, yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Dylan Bowman (00:48:42): Absolutely. And I'm, yeah. I'm happy to hear you say that in retrospect it's yeah. You don't, you are very proud of it and you don't think, oh, I could have done better. Right. But it is a process and you did improve on Western states this year and you will be going back to U two B. So maybe we'll talk about how you might be approaching that double differently this year in a sec. But this is just coming into my head where just a second ago, you said I love being a teammate. And I was actually at the finish line when you finished last year at U T M B. And I usually don't really ask athletes about their sponsors and stuff, but I think this is maybe an interesting thing to riff on for a second, because there was like, I don't know, maybe 20 of your Adidas teammates at the finish line to greet you at U T M B. So maybe talk about that teammate dynamic and what benefit you've seen from it in your career.

Emily Hawgood (00:49:35): Just like everything. I remember when Robert, our, um, team manager reached out to me about joining the team and I told him, I, I was like, you can pay me whatever you want. Like, , it can be, you know, a million dollars and I'm not gonna join if I don't have a team, you know, if we on a team and I can find a pair of shoes that I can run in. Um, and that team part, I know that it was so special to him or is so special to him. Like that's what he wants. Like he wants us to be a family like us going out and competing is one thing us going out and supporting each other is another. And that showed up from the minute I talked to Josh Eberly about the team who was already on the team. Every single person I was talking to was just like, I mean, we were a team, we support each other.

Emily Hawgood (00:50:28): We don't just wear the same gear and see each other at races. Like we're a family. And I've noticed that so much. Like the first time I got to spend time with any, a teammates was at a teen camp up in Sedona last year. Um, you know, during the COVID time. And we just was so connected, I was like, oh, I just walked in. And we were, we already had a passion for running for supporting each other. And that love and passion just grew. Like the only thing we had in common was we loved running and we wear three stripes. Like . Yeah. Um, but that energy and just, I don't know, community. And that just shows up in a lot of things. Like I got a concussion at the end of last year and the people that checked on me the most apart from my like, team, well family over here and my parents and stuff like my coach, it was them, it was my teammates who I like, I mean, I had shared maybe full weeks of time with in person, but they were the ones calling me every day, making sure, you know, um, I got to go and cruise Sabrina Stanley over at Madeira.

Emily Hawgood (00:51:41): And that was counted as like my team contribution. Like my, my manager, Robert was like, no, we really want you to be you're part of the team. Yeah. And that was a big thing. It was like, I couldn't show up and run, but I could show up and support. And that in itself was like, wow, like, this is what a team's about. Yeah. Very, very, and I was lucky in college to my, my coach, pat Mac Curry was very much about that. He always talked about that about a value, um, being a part of the team, like, yes, not everyone's gonna win, but who's gonna bring, you know, like the camaraderie and the support and everything like that. And that's just like stuck with me. And I think going board school, that was a big part of it too. Like when you're a part of a team, you're a part of a team and multiple ways, not just standing at the top of the podium.

Dylan Bowman (00:52:31): I love that. How beautiful thank you for saying that. And I totally identify with it too in college. That was our, our motto. You know, we, whenever we broke down the huddle, I played lacrosse and whenever you broke it down, it was 3, 2, 1 family, you know, and always our philosophy. And it created just this immense bond. Right. And sometimes it, that was illustrated in us, like, you know, being hating, you know, the other teams or whatever, ,

Dylan Bowman (00:53:00): It was like, we are family, you know, and still to this day, you know, the guys that I played with were, are, you know, family to me. So it's something that will, will last a long time. So, and it's awesome. That's so cool. Yeah. It's awesome to see Adidas in the game and making big investments in our sport. So if you can pass along our gratitude as a sport to one of the most important brands in the world that they're in trail running and they're, they understand this aspect and they clearly have identified great athletes to be part of this family. That's a good thing for the sport. So

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Dylan Bowman (00:56:19): Anyway, I will talking about, uh, Western states now this year, because , this is of course what I'm sure a lot of people are gonna want to hear you talk about. uh, before we get to the race itself, I asked you in our pre-race interview show, or maybe you just said it something to the effect of failure for you was gonna be not putting yourself out there. You know, mm-hmm, being, in other words in my interpretation was a failure would be being too conservative. Right. So maybe talk about your psychology before the race and how you and Paul came to the determination that you maybe wanted to assert yourself a little bit more this year.

Emily Hawgood (00:56:57): Yeah, I think, I mean, I left out, had a really good training period leading up to the race. I didn't have any injuries. I'd learned a lot about my body. I got a lot more time to kind of focus on what I wanted to work on going into this race. And I was confident, you know, like my races had, my body was holding up well, like I was taking the time taking the extra time to be a professional athlete and feed myself and look after myself and get some sleep and really do the things that I believed would, you know, make the result better just in terms of how my body would withstand the extra miles or the extra intensity. And, um, I just had that confidence going in of like my coaches were telling, you know, Paul and my strength coach, pat MC Curry were telling me, Hey, like you've put in the work, like believe in yourself, like don't cut yourself short in that. Yes. Okay. Sometimes training cycles don't go. Right. And this time you've lucked out. You've, you know, you haven't left out, you've put in the work to make it a, a huge success. So don't, don't kind of throw the cherry on top place. It exactly where you want it to be and

Dylan Bowman (00:58:18): Love that metaphor thing come naturally to you. I've tying this back to your maybe independence streak, born, you know, from your unique upbringing. But you know, when you have coaches who are encouraging you to believe in yourself, is it, is it easy for you to do so? Or are you somebody who is maybe a little bit insecure in your capabilities?

Emily Hawgood (00:58:43): Um, not insecure, but I don't think I had that full belief. I think like really kind of finding that full belief has been a very recent thing of like, you know, people can tell you like, yeah, you're gonna do great, but it's like, wait, but what does great mean? Mm-hmm, like, it's that? Is that, where do you put that? Where do your coaches put that? Um, and what time will you invest into being great? Um, and this year has been the first year. I really believed it. Like I can stand up there on the pre-race meeting and look to the right and look to the left and be like, yes, I deserve to stand up here with Ruth Craft and Camille her, and like, I can put my best foot forward and they can too. And depending what day or what happens out there, we can be neck and neck. And I, I don't know. I just, yeah, I think I have always had the self-belief, but it I've always thanked my coaches for believing me believing in me, even when I didn't believe in myself.

Dylan Bowman (00:59:52): Yeah. Well, that, that's awesome. And clearly you did have a little bit more self-belief this year, and you've mentioned Ruth Croft's name, standing at the pre-race meeting shoulder to shoulder with one of the greats of our generation and she's also your teammate and you two ran together for much of the first half of Western state. She of course, went on to win the race in historic fashion, running the third face time ever on that legendary course. What was that like? What, uh, I'm sure you've had some time to reflect on those 40 or 50 miles or so that you guys spent shoulder to shoulder. What was that like running with Ruth. And, and how are you thinking about that dynamic with a few weeks of perspective now, anything you learned from the great Kiwi champion, any takeaways

Emily Hawgood (01:00:47): uh, so I really lucked out that since I got competitive in the sport was like picked up by Scott running before Eddie dust was, Ruth's been my teammate from the beginning. So I've always looked up to her as a teammate, um, and a friend and got to, you know, get to know her a little more, but watch her just crush it and have that self belief that maybe I was actually a little lower in before this year. Um, and yeah, so she caught up to me a mile before Robinson and I still, like, I reached over to her as we were running into Robinson flat and like capped on the back and was like, Ruth like, this is a dream come true to run, you know, side by side with you even just through the I, I was like, okay, we're probably gonna be together for a minute but this is still like the most special moment of time.

Emily Hawgood (01:01:44): And that'll be something I'll carry with me forever. Um, you know, being a team person, having been with her from the beginning where I was just a PIP squeak on the start line, you know, attempting to run these sky running races, like now I get to run step and step by sit with her. That is, I mean, that in itself is a life changing moment for me. Oh yeah. Um, yeah, it was everything. I think as much as I've preached about being a teammate and like really loving that family community, it can also finally showed up in a race scenario, you know, where we could race side by side and support each other and say like, Hey, can you taking your salt? Hey, do you have some calories? Let's walk this section and get some calories in. Like, we actually got to be teammates out there.

Emily Hawgood (01:02:35): We didn't have to, I don't know, be, uh, cutthroat with each other. Are we good? yeah. Like push each other and then, you know, ultimately like she could hold butt and get to that finish line first. And that was exciting. And I was excited to see her kind of go ahead of me too. Um, and that, that, that's what racing's about. Like, I, I don't think it's, it doesn't need to be a selfish environment. Um, and I've preached about that for a long time and like talked about it, but actually having it, you know, come to fruit fruition in maybe one of the best races in the world. Yeah. Um, right in front of a thousand people just really showed us that we can compete and push each other together. Like we can be a community out there, like we can be competing and we knew we were competing. We were still, but were we worked together and could really push through some things, um, together. Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (01:03:41): That's what it's all about. Mm-hmm have you guys had a chance to, to catch up since the race and maybe it, were there any fun highlights from that conversation? Any war stories exchange between the two of you after you spent so much time together on the trail?

Emily Hawgood (01:03:56): I mean, both of us, I think say that that was probably one of the specialist moments of the whole day. I was just getting to share that time together, but even she dropped one of her water bottles and didn't even notice. And because I was right behind her, like I could pick it up and give it to her Uhhuh. And for me, that's something that sta that stood out and come out over the last couple weeks is just like, you know, that's, that's what teammates do. That's yeah. Just what we got to do and experience together. And that just kind of maybe highlighted it even a little more, um, and just makes me excited going forward of like the opportunities to race. Yeah. Um, with other people,

Dylan Bowman (01:04:38): My, my feeling, and as I've been reflecting on this and contemplating everything that happened at Western states is that what a amazing learning opportunity for you, right. To have a front row seat to Ruth CRO, who's definitely one of the best of all time. Who's clearly in the upper echelon of athletes who've ever come into the sport and who like you is like that humble, hard work person who like doesn't screw up. Right. and she's just like always there never gets rattled and always puts together awesome races. And you being still very young, what are you like 27 or something like that?

Emily Hawgood (01:05:17): Yep. Have,

Dylan Bowman (01:05:18): Have a front row seat to Ruth's performance there and see that execution firsthand. Although you faded a little bit, you were with her for a while. You probably feel like, Hey, I'm not that far off. Am I, am I right in that? Like, have you been thinking along the same lines, do you view it as an amazing learning opportunity as you develop?

Emily Hawgood (01:05:40): Yeah. An incredible learning opportunity and Ruth's so, so good at listening to her body too. Like she, she doesn't over race. She knows when she doesn't need to step up to a start line, she doesn't feel like she needs to prove anything. She knows that like she has to listen to her body do what's smart. Um, and that's really incredible to yeah. Have a front row seat to, but she's also like such a humble and just incredible personal around. Like I know like when I'm swinging time with Ruth, it's not all about racing or running, you know, we can have a good time. We can hang out and she'll buy the pool or yeah. Do things like that. And it's not all about racing . Yeah. Which makes it really cool, like being professional athletes and knowing like life, isn't all about running it's about family and friends and time and doing other things, you know, she's learning, uh, she's in school doing her home. I think it's like a homeopathic course. And that's like, what's life. That's what life is about. Like, it doesn't have to all be about running . Yeah. And having that front row seat just kind of humbles me even more, um, just yeah. To kinda get that option you're there.

Dylan Bowman (01:07:00): Yeah. But you're also probably like, man, you're not that far off. Right. So maybe let's talk about the second half of the race. Cause ultimately Ruth kind of pulled away and ran away from the field and then you faded ever so slightly. Right. You went from running in the lead to finishing fifth, still an improvement on last year and a super, super strong performance from you. So what happened in the back half of the race? Is there, are there any, um, highlights or lowlights from that? Like did, did you feel like you actually faded and anything that you're taking away from that, that you want to improve on for next year, since you've already established that you are returning

Emily Hawgood (01:07:39): yeah, yeah. Yeah. So before we get to that question, I think it was exciting to be so close to Ruth at the finish, because last year with Courtney at UT M B, I was like hours behind and I was like, Hey, this year are not that far behind the, um, but yeah, so this year I took a Coke on too early and I've really been working on my nutrition and stuff and I just, my stomach couldn't handle the sugars. Um, and so that was kind of my turning point for the race is, I mean, it didn't play an effect immediately, but I was meant to take a recovery drink with me or mix to mix at one of the aid stations. Didn't filled up with Coke instead as my backup and that kind of threw my stomach off. So it was just like, and I was uncomfortable to fur the last 27 miles and like kind of felt like I needed to throw up just to get stuff out, but couldn't, and so it was just like a dig deep.

Emily Hawgood (01:08:41): Okay. Come on. Like luckily all the training still paid off, but I think I, you know, if I hadn't had the stomach turn, my legs were still ready to roll and were, you know, rolling as hard as they could with an uncomfortable stomach. Um, but that's what kind of made me drop back. And maybe I I'd got some bad information from the river that I had a 50 minute lead on the girl behind me. Oh. And then when I got to the next age station, they were like, I don't know where you heard that from. You only had eight minutes at that lobby last aid station. I was like, dang, I took some time to try and turn my stomach around. And so that never

Dylan Bowman (01:09:17): Rely on that information. I know, unless it's coming from a very trusted source, somebody who is staring@thelivestreamoratultralive.net and getting accurate information, you can't rely on

Emily Hawgood (01:09:31): Estimates. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, that's a learning curve, tears. Like I done really believe everything um, but even before the river I had Kyle Curin parse me and he's like, oh dude, you're looking amazing. Camille Heron's like so far behind you. And then five minutes later, um, at least flew by me. And I was like, okay, well that's wrong. you know?

Dylan Bowman (01:09:59): Yeah. She ran. Yeah, she

Emily Hawgood (01:10:01): Too.

Dylan Bowman (01:10:01): Yeah,

Emily Hawgood (01:10:01): She did.

Dylan Bowman (01:10:03): I mean, it was an awesome performance. And like I said, sort of one of the stories of the day for me, and it reminded me kind of, of Katie AB Smith's race from last year where she, I mean, at least to me was a little bit of an unknown quantity and she was competing for podium position, ultimately finished fifth place, but who was definitely like, you know, so close, so close. She unfortunately took a, a small step back this year, but she's got an automatic ticket for next year and yeah, sometimes it takes three tries to get it. Perfect. And I actually, I was seventh and fifth in my first two runnings at Western states too. So you and I are, are twins in that respect. Nice.

Emily Hawgood (01:10:43):

Dylan Bowman (01:10:44): Because third time, third, time's gonna be just totally perfect for you. So now looking ahead towards UT M B, unless there's other things you wanna reflect on from Western states, I'd love to hear again, you finished seventh and 10th at Western UT M B double last year. You were the only person who was able to put that together. Wondering what you learned from the double last year and anything that you're tweaking in the recovery or in the training in the eight weeks between these two incredibly important world class championship level races that you're hoping to maybe help you maybe finish a little bit higher on the UT M B podium this year.

Emily Hawgood (01:11:26): Yeah. Um, so last year I definitely learned a lot going from Winston to UT M B. Um, I love that summer. So now it's, you know, it's a great time to get up high and climb mountains and that's perfect for going into UT M B and kind of the opportunity to get out in the mountains. Um, here has like, that's a, it's at its peak right now and the summer weather. And so training for UT M B is a whole new adventure from Weston. Um, and that's like my mindset always going into the training block now of like, I just get to be outside more and up in the mountains more. And I have this huge training block behind me for Weston. Um, and as a huge bouncing block going into to TMB. And it's a nice way to do it this way around yet, uh, Western first and then U T M B I think going forward, like a lot of it will be similar to last year's training block, but kind of, as I was going into Western, I was a little more rested cuz I didn't have to do 300 Ks going into Western.

Emily Hawgood (01:12:34): And so coming out of Western, I'm a little more rested too, just for that fact of like I raced a 50 K and so I have that extra bounce still there. Um, yeah, as much as UT M B was super exciting last year, I'm excited this year because I have a little more bounce in my stick, even though I've run the hundred mile. Um, I haven't had to race three times before yeah. Before now. Yeah.

Dylan Bowman (01:13:02): Well, awesome. Well, I can't wait to see, to see how you do there. It's such a tough double to do. I mean, the races are so close together and they're so different and the level of competition is so high at both of them that when you have the best in the world who are focusing on one of them or the other, it's, it's hard to put it together at both. And so I wish you nothing, but the best is you continue to recover from Western states and it put together at least a few specific bits of training for what is a very difficult mountainous course at UT M B. So maybe, oh,

Emily Hawgood (01:13:36): You with us, I saw your name. God,

Dylan Bowman (01:13:39): , I'm on the list. I need to email them. Cause as I mentioned before, we started recording, I am, uh, awaiting the birth of my son who is due, you know, August 10th. And so, oh yeah. We'll, uh, we'll have bigger things to attend to this year. Uh, I'm sad to miss it, but uh, obviously very excited for what's ahead for me. And if I have to miss U T M B once in my life, I've already been there. Like, I don't know, probably eight or nine times it feels like, so yeah, I'll be back hopefully next year. But um, as we wrap up maybe last question for you, I mean, you are still only 27, right? And you are, you're racing at the highest level. You're doing the biggest races in the world and you are clearly improving. Wondering if there's any other things that you Haven in mind goals for the future. Things that maybe we haven't touched on so far, we know you're going back to Western states next year, but anything else that, uh, is speaking to you or inspiring you about the sport or, um, goals that you want to set for yourself as an athlete over the next 10 plus years that you hopefully have outta you?

Emily Hawgood (01:14:44): Yeah, I have a lot. I love like just seeing how this journey is playing out. Like you talked about my sky running section of running and you know, maybe now with like a little more experience jumping back into a couple of those races would be fun. I actually doing the Zimbabwe sky run at the end of the year, which is a 56 K and that'll just be a, you know, it'll be nice to do something short again, but that's way more technical and it's exciting to see trail running, coming into the Zimbabwe community. And so even that in itself is like a good little goal, but good little, I don't know, bonus of seeing my community kind of take up my passion to and talk,

Dylan Bowman (01:15:30): Talk about that briefly. I'm I'm curious because I, the reason I want you to expand on it is because I've been friends with Ryan sands for many years now and I've been able to see how he's like personally changed the trail, running culture in South Africa and, and brought it to the forefront. Like he basically made trail running a sport in South Africa. Yeah. And, uh, I'm, I, I feel like you kind of have a similar opportunity in, in Zimbabwe is like, do you hear from people back home or is the participation in the sport maybe ticking up because the great Emily Hogan is smashing races right. And left

Emily Hawgood (01:16:06): . Well, the reason I carry my flag, um, is more about that community then about being from Zimbabwe. Yes. It's a reminder of where I grew up and my roots and you know, the opportunities to get where I am, but it really is for that community that supports me, um, which is the running community over there. And they've taken to the trails more in the past few years. And I think that's exciting that maybe I do have a little part in it, but also that they found it cuz it's a safer community over there, you know, to like getting people off the roads yeah. Is just a safer place to be anyways. And I think the passion of like being able to be out, I would say the mountains, but I came from the badest part of the world

Emily Hawgood (01:16:56): So yeah, the mountains or just, you know, the rolling Hills that they are in makes me so excited to have them. Yeah. Just be a little more a part of it, but also just have those opportunities to go down to that racing environment that Ryan has created in South Africa and maybe get the opportunities or more opportunities like I have of being able to see different places, see the wild a little differently. Um yeah. Yeah. I love what Ryan did is doing and how much of a community he's created, um, over there. And I'm hoping I can go actually go do his 14 peaks challenge. yeah. , it'll be fun. Um,

Dylan Bowman (01:17:38): I feel like I cut you off though, as I was asking you about, uh, your, your goals for the future. Is there anything else you wanna add there before we sign? Oh

Emily Hawgood (01:17:46): Yeah. So then, so I think I have a lot and I'm kind of excited to see different opportunities arise and hear people suggest something and, you know, sit my heart on fire for other races or other opportunities, maybe some F KTS or diff different challenges. But this week I'm actually going up to glacier national park where two of my teammates out here, um, are crossing the park on all the highest peaks out there. And I'm getting to be with them for a couple days. Uh, Nate bender and Sam .

Dylan Bowman (01:18:20): Okay.

Emily Hawgood (01:18:22): And so getting to be out there and kind of, uh, be there support crew and then go out on the trails. So they lost couple days with them and you know, I just bought a helmet and I'm borrowing an ISAC and I'm gonna camp out and just build my, maybe my comfort zone a little more and getting different skills. Um, that's probably one of the most exciting parts I have of like what's ahead is getting new skills and things I haven't done before. And that's a big part for me. I have bass racing right here, cuz I know going up into Montana, it's a different world. from here. I came from being a Flatlander to now running in mountains to, you know, hopefully getting bearing

Dylan Bowman (01:19:07): Bear mace with a helmet on. Yeah. You're definitely graduating to a new level here.

Emily Hawgood (01:19:12): Yep, exactly.

Dylan Bowman (01:19:14): Well, I think it's really smart, Emily. I think, you know, the, the path that you've been on has been impressive so far and it's great to just chat with you and I have nothing but confidence that you'll continue on this upward trajectory. It won't be without its challenges and bits of adversity, but you have all the tools you need to, you know, absolutely smash it in this sport. And I think you bring a great personality, a great, uh, personal, you know, kind of like disposition and energy to the racing fields too. So thanks so much for coming on the podcast as a joy to chat with you. And uh, I hope we can catch up again soon.

Emily Hawgood (01:19:51): Yeah. Well thank you so much, Dylan, everything. I mean, you know this community and so all those words coming from you, it's pretty special. Thank you. Um, yeah. Getting this opportunity to chat with you has been incredible and I hope we get to chat more and good luck on being

Dylan Bowman (01:20:06): A, a dad. good luck at UTM E until next time.

Dylan Bowman (01:20:16): Big. Thank you to Emily. I so enjoyed that episode. I hope you guys did too hope. You've grown to be as big of a fan of Emily as I have both as a person and as an athlete, I think huge things are ahead for her. So make sure you go follow Emily on Instagram to follow along her journey. I have a link to her profile in the show notes here in today's episode as always a big thanks to our sponsors speed land, best shoes to ever hit the trail running market. Visit run speed, land.com and grab a pair of the SL HSV JBO eyewear. I just got a new pair of the fury sunglasses and you should too use code free trail 10 for 10% off your order@jbo.com gnarly nutrition, best nutrition brand in the market. Go grab some protein powder or some electrolytes or some fuel to drink. Mix my favorite visit go gnarly.com. Use code free trail 15 for 15% off your order. If you enjoy the show, please share it with your friends and training partners. Share it on social media or even better. Leave us a review on apple podcasts. All those things are much appreciated by me and our small team here. I hope you all are having an amazing week and an amazing summer. Always appreciate your time and attention. Thanks for listening to the show. More great episodes coming down the pipeline very soon. Love you dearly talk soon. Bye bye.